Would it have been cheaper to nationalise RBS?

With state control of Royal Bank of Scotland (RBS) creeping up to 84 pct, I wonder if it would have been cheaper to nationalise the bank? This might have created a hornet's nest between London and Edinburgh but it might have been cheaper, since it looks like the bank is going to be broken up anyway. Selling insurance assets like Direct Line won't making it any easier to repay taxpayer support and kow-towing to the European Commission shows how weak the government is.
Probably the UK government's balance sheet would not have been big enough to formally take on the RBS assets but state control might have avoided the furore about banker bonuses. The UK Treasury is probably regretting its disinterest in RBS taking over ABN Amro, where it looks like Spanish bank Banco Santander waltzed off with the best assets of the Dutch group while the British bank just took on board a lot of toxic debt.
The UK government did at least save the banking system a year ago since the economy could not have coped with the collapse of RBS or of the Halifax. It is a shame that taxpayers and bank employees are going to pay dearly for the mistakes of the past.

UK bank stocks do not look too good.

You don't get the sense that the British government is not working too hard to avoid the complete nationalisation of some UK banks. There has been talk of a "bad bank" to take on the toxic assets housed by these institutions but at around forty pence the private shareholders of Royal Bank of Scotland (RBS) look like they are flying the white flag. The share price would be healthier if it could unload a few assets into the bad bank and if it could do it now.
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So if the British government took full control of RBS the next day there would be calls for the sale of the U.S banking interests due to local fears of unfair competition. It would be impossible to get a good price for these American assets, which cost an absolute fortune to build up, because it would be a forced sale.
The current management of RBS might feel it is a good idea to sell off the international interests but retreating to a tough UK banking market dominated by the behemoth Lloyds does not sound a good idea. RBS has just sold a small stake in a Chinese bank but the original purchase must have been based on some kind of game plan, which was not completely wrong.
I suppose a UK taxpayer rescue and foreign assets do not compute.

Where are the British banks going?

There has been chatter in the UK about the creation of a "toxic bank" to house the ghastly assets not wanted by the British banks. One potential result would be to see the Royal Bank of Scotland (RBS) halve in size. It would be in the strange position of having no assets left from its ABN Amro acquisition but would still be paying for it.
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I suppose British premier Gordon Brown looks at the electoral calendar and has decided he has not got enough time for the banks to gouge out the profits from UK consumers and corporates while it slowly writes off the problematic items on its balance sheet. The prime minister wants the British banks to lend again but they have instituted very conservative lending standards in the residential property sector and they don't seem to have any desire to lower them.
The UK economy is very dependent on the housing sector. House prices have fallen badly but there has not been any sign of real capitulation selling. For instance, the buy-to-let sector has held up well given the implosion of the main lender
Bradford and Bingley. If vendors start accepting the offers being actually made then
it will at least get the transaction numbers moving.
Hopefully, the toxic bank will not have to take lots of mortgage loans but unfortunately it will be full of acronym rubbish such as SIVs, CDOs as well as a load of corporate loans.

Bank stocks seem to be continuing their decline.

British bank stocks are again on the rack. Royal Bank of Scotland (RBS) is trading at 58 pence despite the fact that it is going to get quite a wodge from the British taxpayer. Halifax Bank of Scotland (HBOS) reached 90 pence, which is also receiving largesse from the taxpayer. These judgements by the stock market do not show any confidence for the future. This future seems to be one of hard grind sorting out the mess of toxic debt, derivatives and funding issues.
When Abbey National hit the buffers, it was helped by a benign environment to resolve its treasury book and it took several years and a sale to a stronger bank Banco Santander. The HBOS takeover could sink Lloyds TSB. If the combined bank does well I think at a later date the Competition authorities could order a reduction in its UK share of mortgages and savings.
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Are the UK banks going to need more state help?

Barclays is one of the banks, which has turned down the offer of help from the UK government. The British bank has raised money from Gulf investors for example. Independence means that it can exploit international ambitions. This compares with the Royal Bank of Scotland, which looks likely to dispose of quite a few foreign assets.
Barclays has attracted brickbats for ignoring pre-emption rights but has argued that conventional rights issues did not work well with HBOS and Bradford and Bingley. These latter banks were hit by the long delay between announcing the capital raising operation and actually getting the money. The new shares were also issued at a discount, which hit the existing stock price.
Let's hope Barclays is not hit by toxic debt or by increasing loan losses.
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Panic selling hits UK stock market.

The view was that equities were the good long-term bet in comparison with bonds and cash. However, this week's falls in the London stock market has shown how risky shares are. One view is that the stock market is pricing in a depression. I don't know how the Royal Bank of Scotland got marked down to 79 pence at one point today. This is a massive bank and one which would benefit from the UK government bailout if it wants to. It does not bear thinking about if RBS has to be rescued by the government, although some sections of the population in Scotland would be delighted to have a Scottish state bank.
I think pro-Independence supporters had counted on a vibrant financial services scene in Edinburgh, which has been badly affected by the recent market turbulence.
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Will banking problems hit wider UK economy?

Will banking problems hit the wider UK economy? The mortgage market has shrunk following the travails of Northern Rock. With the number of loan products being reduced and with hefty deposits required, the British housing market is going
to be travelling at a reduced speed. Some homeowners will be trapped and will be
unable to move despite the job offer, downsizing, divorce, death of a partner
etc.
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The Bank of England has cut interest rates but these have been used by the banks to reinforce their profitability. It has been heartening that some banks such as
Royal Bank of Scotland, HBOS and the Bradford & Bingley are reinforcing their balance sheets with rights issues. (The missus has 250 shares in Bradford & Bingley).
HSBC looks big enough and ugly enough to get by so we just have to wait for
Barclays' decision on whether to go ahead with a capital increase.

Profitable and strong banks are vital for an economy even though they can come across as robbing institutions. The British banks have been guilty of pushing cheap credit and it is becoming a shock to the UK consumer for the reverse to happen.
Maybe we are looking at just a further six months of pain.

Are you bearish or bullish?

Are you bearish or bullish? I was thinking about increasing my pension provision again and just felt a wave of defeated boredom. I have not got enough spare money.
Are UK equities going to be top-class performers or should I just try and pay off
as much of the mortgage as possible?

I was amazed that there have not been more British banks following the path of
Royal Bank of Scotland and Halifax (HBOS) in launching rights issues to raise more money from their shareholders. I could buy them and hope then
the shares of the two banks go up enough over the next 15 years so that I could retire. (I have been rereading this last sentence and I think it is a load of rubbish!!)

UK bank stocks can go up and they can go down!!

UK stocks can go up and they can go down as shareholders of Barclays can testify
with their recent bumpy ride. A mate of mine bought them at six
something and now the bank stock is five something after reaching four
something and he is not a happy bunny.

British bank stocks have been one of the pillars of UK income funds, both unit
trusts and investment trusts. The banks were used to provide the income but this
strategy has truly unstuck with the collapse of Northern Rock. I am no expert in shares but I think the advice of being able to lose your investment, if it came to it, is a sound one.

I suppose shareholders in Royal Bank of Scotland were hoping for a more
robust performance than they got recently. What as Fred the Shred Goodwin got to
to say to his institutional investors?

(Now that we are in January 2009 we know how it has panned out for Fred the Shred.
In addition, investors can only dream of £5 for Barclays.)